Return PolishForums LIVE
  PolishForums Archive :
Archives - 2005-2009 / History  % width 118

Jewish belongings


eric_the_nave - | 30  
30 Jul 2007 /  #91
There were a lot of anti-semites in Poland – the Jedwabne massacres were terrible and you Poles would be better off not denying that.

Which of course you haven’t – an apology was issued by your President in 2001 I believe. Which kind of flies in the face of people who claim you never apologised.

However the attempts to compare Polish anti-semitism with nazi anti-semitism or even to say that Polish anti-semitism was worse than in other occupied countries is absurd but I’m afraid to say pretty common.

Firstly Poland never collaborated with the Nazis. The Nazis never managed to set up a puppet government in Poland unlike in every other country they occupied. They never managed to form a Polish division to fight for them – again unlike in every other country they occupied.

Also unlike every other country they occupied, there was an automatic death penalty for entire families if they were caught sheltering Jews. The Nazi regime was far more brutal in Poland than in Western Europe and Czechoslovakia. Food rations were much lower. Your intellectuals and nobility were generally slaughtered.

Nevertheless there are more Poles than any other nationality recognized by the Israeli Yad Vashem Institute – The Holocaust Martyrs’ and Heroes’ Remembrance Authority in Jerusalem, as “Righteous Among the Nations.” These were people that risked their lives to save Jews. People who were caught doing so and who were subsequently killed along with the Jews they were sheltering are not included on this list.

Zegota was the only branch of any resistance movement in all of the occupied countries dedicated solely to saving Jews. The Polish government in exile tried to make people believe what was going on but were generally disregarded.

Despite all of this the belief that the Poles were generally anti-semitic sadistic killers has grown over the years whereas such stories from other occupied countries are normally swept under the carpet. This is because Western European countries grew strong and powerful after the war and had an interest and in presenting the positive face of their WW2 involvement. Poland on the other hand had Soviet lackeys in power who wished to undermine the reputation of it’s home army (who they normally imprisoned). These Polish governments could not care if the West regarded Poles as generally anti-semitic.

It is also important now for you younger Poles to get to know both the good and dark side of your history. Like I say most of us in the West are really only aware of the darker side.
witek 1 | 587  
30 Jul 2007 /  #92
There were a lot of anti-semites in Poland – the Jedwabne massacres were terrible and you Poles would be better off not denying that.

If Poles were so anti-semetic then why did Jews live and prosper in Poland for approx. 700 years? Also it must be noted that Poland had the biggest Jewish population (after the U.S.) before the outbreak of World War II.



eric_the_nave - | 30  
31 Jul 2007 /  #93
Read the rest of the post. There were a lot of anti-semites everywhere in Europe.

And yes I agree that Poland was light years better than every other nation in Europe in the middle Ages.

Also note that when I say "a lot of Poles were", it is a lot different to saying "most Poles were"
Vanguard - | 24  
31 Jul 2007 /  #94
Who cares if some Polish people ended up with a few Chatchkies?

I've seen a picture of a huge synagoge in Poland. It is currently an electronics store.

There is another picture of a synagoge in South Africa that has been turned into a fried chicken shop.

Jews got compensated in a big way, anyway, they got Palestine, so what's the big deal?
Patrycja19 63 | 2,699  
31 Jul 2007 /  #95
"...I would like to characterize the attitudes of Poles toward Jews.."

I am thinking this is made up for those who want to convince themselfs..
the real truth is,, Germans and Russians had some meat on their bones in
1945.. they didnt look starved.. and they wore some heavy warm clothing
to which I could see Poles, Jews ( who were spared) etc etc maybe looting to
find something to eat and put on.. what the hell would anybody do in that
situation.. the British and American army was there, but hell, to that many
starved people coming out of a camp.. what they hell would you do??

tell ya what i would do.. plant my arse in a vacant home and who the hell cares
who lived there,, I want my life back thats what!!!

give me food, shelter, and medication... anything to my survival..
and I seriously doubt that much was left after people were loaded onto trains
to go to their death.
Vanguard - | 24  
31 Jul 2007 /  #96
The whole Jedwabne thing is just anti-polish propaganda coming from jewish sources.

They control 95% of the world's mainstream media, and are constantly attempting to get their victims on a guilt trip. Don't fall for their lies.

Fight jewish propaganda at every opportunity. Counter every lie. Fight back against Jewish lies on the internet.
shahama  
31 Jul 2007 /  #97
Unfortunately instead of having a civilized discussion those interersted in an outlet for their racism and propoganda (on all sides) are dominating this forum.

These are the rules, where is the moderator? :

Stay on topic. If your post is not related to this thread, create a new thread or post here.
- Do not insult or harass others, play nicely!
- Do not personally attack others to avoid temporary or permanent suspension.
OP Sivanne 1 | 7  
10 Aug 2007 /  #98
yes but stay on topic!
isthatu 3 | 1,164  
11 Aug 2007 /  #99
No idea where it all comes from but when I was last at Kola market there were certainly a lot of those silver pointy sticks and candle holders,mind you lots of jerry stuff ,soldbuchs etc and ,er,wigs aswell....so I suppose 60 year old junk does surrface everywhere. In the parts of Warsaw I know people those old enough,ex AK fighters and others have nothing from their pre war/ powstanie warszawskie days ,only items dragged from the rubble that those "civiliesd" germans deemed worthless such as sheet music and Polish books . So even though I understand the motive(innocent) behind the specifically jewish question why diffirentiate between Poles who untill the invasions(or in the more zionist shtetls) would only once a week be different? As always it drags out the worst in some people,those bizzare "protocols of the elders of zion" quoters................and others with a slight rose tint on their respective histories.

First off, eric the knaves post is spot on,good to highlight zhegota et al
but other posts are rather simplistic/rose tinted. To say that there were no,zero Polish colaberators is fancifull to say the least.If this was the case why were a large proportion of the Home Armies k diw targets Polish nationals? Every country has turn coats and spivs ,Poland just happened to have far less+a more effective underground state to enforce Polish law.

And on that topic,can any anti poles name another country who's underground army actually attacked and liberated a Death Camp? no,didnt think so,look up Goose Farm.

As for the german guy trying to insinute some sort of parrallel with Nazi and Polish history,get over yourself. Europe is bored sick of "ze Germans" cod tears for crimes commited 60+ years ago,and so are you lot from what I hear. Isnt Germany now trying to declare the Allied bomber crews(53thousand brit/commenwealth dead helping to free europe) as war crimenals on a par with the SS. Good boze man,now that takes the biquies and no mistake No, To quote basil fawltey. You started it,you invaded Poland.

Oh,and now trying to get back land owned by f**king volksdeutsche during the occupation,thats just twisted........
k.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,385  
11 Aug 2007 /  #100
Goose Farm.

Did a look up. Interesting.
Lukasz 49 | 1,746  
2 Sep 2007 /  #101
Hi i think that it will be wery hard to find something belonging to jews comunity in houses, basements ect. Just because those things becomed valuable sewral years ago. And I think that it will be very difficult to find something, even small.
island1 - | 16  
20 Sep 2007 /  #102
Saw a very interesting documentary on the BBC about a Jewish guy who went back to Poland after 60 years. He left as a very small child when his family managed to escape to the UK. He went to a small town (don't remember where) and tried to visit the house that his family once lived in. The current Polish owner was, not unnaturally, extremely suspicious about who this guy was and only let him in after much persuasion (and, who knows, a bit of cash from the producer perhaps). The Jewish guy found it a moving experience and even remembered a couple of items of furniture, a big oak table for example. The Polish owner insisted that he had bought the table 'a couple of years ago.'

Anyway, long story short, the guy went back about six months later and found that the Polish owner had almost completely demolished his own house searching for the 'Jewish gold' that he was convinced must be hidden somewhere.

There are countless urban legends in Poland of people finding gold or gems or other valuable items that were hidden by desperate Jews just before they were carted off to the death camps. I don't know if any of them have been shown to be true.
Slick77  
20 Sep 2007 /  #103
Of course, you cannot get anything for free from those suspicious and greedy Poles. You have to pay those Pollacks to even get a glass of water.

Surely, those gold-hungry Poles would do anything to get their hands on your precious Jewish gold.

There are countless urban legends in Poland of people finding gold or gems or other valuable items that were hidden by desperate Jews just before they were carted off to the death camps. I don't know if any of them have been shown to be true.

I shall have my own house torn apart to see if there is any Jewish gold left hidden in the walls.
plk123 8 | 4,149  
20 Sep 2007 /  #104
But Germans are tougher than Poles....we at least acknowledged what happened...takes guts to do this...guts you don't have!

what? guts about killing millions of innocent jews, poles and others?.. guts about stealing a butt load of stuff? guts about destrying thousands of years of history? guts about torturing people? guts about what? tell me more.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161  
20 Sep 2007 /  #105
LOL ! Looks like BBC really likes polonophobic propaganda.
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544  
20 Sep 2007 /  #106
I've heard that the leprechaun was in reality a Polish midget. Still can't figure out why he wore those nasty green tights though. :)
island1 - | 16  
21 Sep 2007 /  #107
LOL ! Looks like BBC really likes polonophobic propaganda.

Honestly, there wasn't anything phobic about it. As I recall, it was a small segment in the last episode of a series about Auschwitz (I use the German name deliberately). The program makers were clearly completely bemused by the reaction they got, they certainly hadn't set out to confirm some pre-existing stereotype or prejudice.

I'm not referring to you Grzegorz, but it does astonish me how many Poles/Semi-Poles are convinced that all Westerners have nothing but prejudices and negative opinions about Poland. We really don't.
Firestorm 6 | 400  
21 Sep 2007 /  #108
we at least acknowledged what happened...takes guts to do this...guts you don't have!

Omg Omg.. Roflmao

What Guts..?
Germany rampaged across Europe Murdering and enslaving Millions.
And Burning what you couldn't loot or Steal..
You dont need to admit ANYTHING.

Anyone with a brain knows it was them.
But At least you have guts...
And since when did a German ever listen to anything a Jew said.
Or a Pole for that matter.. Except to hear them beg..
Lucynda 4 | 70  
23 Sep 2007 /  #109
What was stolen of value?

Not silver candlesticks, not diamonds, antiques, paintings, or furniture. But precious lives.

6 million Jews. 9 million Poles. Millions of Germans.

This is what we should be curious about. Not what happened to property.
OP Sivanne 1 | 7  
24 Sep 2007 /  #110
Yes darling, ofcurs that's what we are all curious about!.... But when 95% of your family was murderd by the Nazis in Poland... you realy do want to know every thing you can about how they where before they where murderd, what books did they like to read?how they looked like?...how did there hous looked like?, what was in there hous? what happend to there belongings after they where taken to Auschwitz, what happend to the family album that was left in the hous when they where taken to Auschwitz?... So I am trying to know my family better and there life's in Poland before the war, but it is kind of hard sinds hardly anyone survived.
Lukasz 49 | 1,746  
24 Sep 2007 /  #111
about 30% of Warszawa was jewish beffore the war.

And it is Warszawa after the war (95% of town totally destroyed)

What do you think happened with jewish belongings there ...
Crazy Horse RV  
24 Sep 2007 /  #112
We as free men and women must never forget. It should serve as a reminder of man's inhumanity toward man. Those who have lost family members will probably never be able to forgive.

Just remember, in war there are no winners. There are no loosers either. There are only survivors and most of them are casualties in one form or another.
Lucynda 4 | 70  
24 Sep 2007 /  #113
But when 95% of your family was murderd by the Nazis in Poland... you realy do want to know every thing you can about how they where before they where murderd, what books did they like to read?how they looked like?...

Well, actually some of my family was murdered by the Nazis in Poland! But my tribute to them is to live as full a life as I can. I know this is what they would want for me. As for the injustice and the theft -- that, to me, is something that God will take care of at the last judgment.

If you want to honor your relatives who died, I suggest this -- find a holocaust that is happening now (take the Sudan, for instance) and try and help a few people there. There isn't too much we can do about 1930s and 40s Poland!

But I support your quest, because everyone has to deal with family pain in their own way. Who am I to judge you?

But I don't think there's a single group of people that hasn't been hurt. Right now, it's Africans. There are so many of them dying....And what about all the innocent Iraqis?
KONSKIEpelta 1 | 2  
1 Jan 2008 /  #114
my family in Konskie had a lot of personal items in the home including valuables in the wall. they were taken by the current residents of the property and some of them are still there, NOT IN GERMANY OR RUSSIA
vodka 1 | 38  
1 Jan 2008 /  #115
so many Poles have the same problem becuse they were cofiscated by commies, and their properties were given for other people prefered in new commie system.
isthatu 3 | 1,164  
1 Jan 2008 /  #116
Actualy,all of mainland europe had the same problem!!!When you have a situation where the 2 largest armies the world has ever seen decide to treat Europe as one big army barmy free for all war theme park you end up with a situation with a serious lack of housing. If a house stays empty just out of respect to the fact the previous owners went up a chimney that would have been a crime in itself. Get over it. Why do you think most europeans dont buy their own property out right?because,Im guessing,history shows its a waste of money as who knows when a bomb will come through the rooof or a tank enter the living room.
Puzzler 9 | 1,089  
1 Jan 2008 /  #117
- One should accept any 'wrongdoings' that actually happened; one should not accept any wrongdoings that have never happened. Accepting the wrongdoings that have never happened shows that one is not strong, but weak and cowardly - and stupid. The Germans, for example, admitted in the past some 'wrongdongs' that have never happened. They allowed themselves to be forced to do that.... They didn't have the guts to say no. And now they are bullying the nations they have badly wronged, especially the Poles and Czechs, to admit some imaginary wrongdoings against the Germans too. The Germans have been carrying on an international hate-propaganda campaign against the Poles and Czechs (the media psychos in other European countries have been supporting the German campaign), in order to force them to make the false confession.

Shopgirl, I can see, still backing up blindly the Nazi creep Buttworst Boy? The cult of brute force, eh Shopgirl?
:)

I allways wonderd if Polish peopole even this days are fineding some jewish stuff (like picturs, candel holders,books, and so on) in apartaments where jews yoused to live ...or in basements... becoas I know that when the jews went to Auschwitz or other camps, they left there hous's like they were and took hardly nothing with them.
Can anyone help me with that?

- Can, ahem, 'help' you 62 years after the war? How about if you asked for help some Jews too - those who served in the Russian Stalinist security apparatus in Poland, in the years 1945-56? You know, the security apparatus ruled Poland right after the war. Therefore they should be well-infromed about any matters whatsoever, and especially the property matters (all property in Russian communism was made the property of the state, i.e. security apparatus). Some of the Jewish security boys - should I say old boys? - maybe are still alive, enjoying the good life abroad, e.g. in US, UK, Sweden, Israel.... Can you also, by any chance, ask them if they remember the names and faces of the Polish people they tortured and murdered? Good luck in your search.

:)
Wroclaw Boy  
1 Jan 2008 /  #118
An interesting fact warsaw sustained 108% destruction throughout WWII

Archives - 2005-2009 / History / Jewish belongingsArchived